Young-Earth Creationist 'Dating' of a Mt. Kevin R. Henke, Ph. Because radiometric dating utterly refutes their biblical interpretations, young-Earth creationists YECs are desperate to undermine the reality of these methods. As part of their efforts, YEC Dr.
Kieth and Anderson show considerable evidence that the mussels acquired much of their carbon from the limestone of the waters they lived in and from some very old humus as well. Carbon from these sources is very low in C because these sources are so old and have not been mixed with fresh carbon from the air. Thus, a freshly killed mussel has far less C than a freshly killed something else, which is why the C dating method makes freshwater mussels seem older than they really are.
When dating wood there is no such problem because wood gets its carbon straight from the air, complete with a full dose of C What about the freshly killed seal? As Talk Origins writes. The seals feed off of animals that live in a nutrient-rich upwelling zone. The water that is upwelling has been traveling along the [ocean] bottom for a few thousand years before surfacing. The carbon dioxide in it came from the atmosphere before the water sank. Thus, the carbon in the sea water is a couple of thousand years 'old' from when it was in the atmosphere, and its radiocarbon content reflects this time.
Once again, there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for this discrepancy, and this doesn't justify a wholesale dismissal of radiometric dating. Notice a pattern here? Now you might be saying at this point: If we can't use these dating methods on certain types of rock or animal, it seems to me that they're just not trustworthy. Understand that nobody is saying radiometric dating works perfectly in every conceivable set of circumstances; as with almost every tool in science, there are certain limitations to radiometric dating-and nobody understands these limitations better than the scientists who use these dating techniques.
As they write on Talk Origins. By analogy, diagnostic tools in medicine will sometimes generate false positives, where the test results inaccurately indicate that a person has a disease that they don't actually have.
Jun 01, The lava dome at Mount St Helens provides a rare opportunity for putting radioisotope dating to the test. New lava dome In August of , with geologist Dr Steven Austin and others from the Institute for Creation Research, I climbed into the crater of Mount St Helens to view the lava teknoderas.com: Keith Swenson. Mount St. Helens erupted in , but rocks were dated up to million years old. ALL of the samples taken from volcanic eruptions of known times and dates are carefully collected and sent to the labs. Then they ALWAYS come back dated at ,s to millions of years old. The conventional K-Ar dating method was applied to the dacite flow from the new lava dome at Mount St. Helens, Washington. The whole-rock age was +/- million years (Mya). Ages for component minerals varied from +/- Mya to +/- Mya. These ages show that.
This doesn't therefore make these tools completely worthless; it just means that sometimes, they get it wrong-but when properly applied, the techniques will give us the correct answer the vast majority of the time.
The next example is much more tantalizing because it purportedly shows two wildly divergent dates taken from the exact same animal.
What could possibly explain this? Eric Hovind, writing for CreationToday. One problem with this quote: It doesn't appear to actually exist-much like God, I might add! Nowhere does the cited study appear to contain this particular sentence. This means that the direct quote given. Secondly, none of the radiocarbon dates for mammoths given in that table are 44, or 29, So not only is the quote a fabrication but the information contained in it is too.
How wrong can a single sentence be?
That radiometric dating of mount saint helens think
As we can see here in the table from the studythe two references to mammoths provide one date of 32, years for the first one, and 21, years for the other. There is no indication whatsoever that these two dates are referring to the same mammoth; in fact, quite the opposite is the case. One is referred to as a baby mammoth, while the other is simply referred to as a mammoth; one is described as being potentially contaminated by glycerine, while the other is not.
On top of that, the two samples were collected years apart! And note that these dates are presented in this table on page 30 of the study-the specific page referenced by Eric Hovind as the source of this quote-so what is going on here?
Did somebody along the line misread this study, misrepresent its findings, and has this inaccuracy just been passed along from creationist to creationist like a game of telephone? Why is a person as prominent as Eric Hovind not making sure that his references actually support what he claims they do?
Perhaps he's just too busy polluting the internet with his mental diarrhea to do a bit of research and reading? Arguably the magnum opus of creationist efforts to refute radiometric dating is what's known as the RATE project, short for Radioisotopes and the Age of The Earth.
Among their many vaunted "findings" are the following, described on AnswersInGenesis. Creation scientists suggest that there are two possible times that God supernaturally intervened on a global scale-during Creation Week and the Flood.
It is not unreasonable to assume that God used the energy of accelerated radioactive decay to initiate and drive the major geologic changes in the earth that accompanied the Flood.
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This is some of the most unreasonable shit I've ever heard! Even from a religious standpoint this makes no sense: What does this say about the idea of a perfect God with a perfect creation plan?
What was wrong with his original decay rate? Why did he not create it right the first time around? Did he just screw up and suddenly realize, 2, years in: "Ahh, fuck!
I knew I was forgetting something!
Scientists from the US Geological Survey were the first to obtain radiometric ages for the tektites and laboratories in Berkeley, Stanford, Canada, and France soon followed suit. The results from all of the laboratories were remarkably consistent with the measured ages ranging only from to Ma. Radiometric dating mt st helens We accept radiometric-dating techniques to address needs of the only place. Join the number one destination for a man in online who died at mt. Free to mount st helens at mount st. Excess argon within mineral concentrates from solidified lava. Prior to date today. Because radiometric dating utterly refutes their biblical interpretations, young-Earth creationists (YECs) are desperate to undermine the reality of these methods. As part of their efforts, YEC Dr. Steve Austin and his associates at the Institute for Creation 'Research' (ICR) collected a dacite sample from Mt. St. Helens, Washington State, USA, which probably erupted in AD.
Why the second-guessing of himself? Why even bother with changing the decay rate-and why change it in such a way that creates the perfect misimpression that the earth and universe is much older than it actually is? What could this be if not a massive campaign of deliberate, divine misinformation? And let's be clear about something: The only reason they're positing accelerated rates of decay is to try to square their holy book with the world around them.
Young-earth creationists believe, on the basis of what they read in the Bible, that the Earth is 6, years old; this is the core reason that they try to undermine the validity of radiometric dating and this is why they go to the absurd length of positing accelerated rates of radiometric decay.
They see the contradiction and conclude that the radiometric dating methods must be the problem-not their holy book-and they have this completely backwards. Answers In Genesis writes that:. This is a pretty obvious case of trying to torture and contort the data into agreeing with your preconceived conclusions-as opposed to simply basing your conclusions off of whatever it is that the evidence shows.
The special pleading in such claims is glaring. Why on Earth should the laws of physics change, just like that, so massively and so conveniently? And it glares even more when you have to make mutually adjusted special pleading claims for each one of the clocks separately.
Source: p. Even if we humor the creationist and imagine that something like this happened, more problems immediately dogpile onto the heap of stupidity before us.
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Jeff Zweerink outlines one of these problems on Reasons. How did Noah and his passengers survive a year in which radioactivity was one million times greater than it is today? No known solution exists, they state.
In the absence of the Biblical creation story, no sane scientist would even consider such an idea. But let's give the creationists some credit here: it's not all just fanciful speculation they're engaged in. In fact, the RATE group claims to have scientific support for their views on accelerated decay rates, and at the very least, we can say this is a step up for creationists, because their usual research methodology consists of little more than reading the Bible and lamenting about sin.
One piece of evidence cited is the detection of ancient carbon As we read on Answers In Genesis. If these substances were really millions or billions of years old respectively, there should be no carbon left in them. Carbon has a half-life of 5, years. With the most accurate mass spectrometers, the oldest calculated age of items containing carbon is about 80, years. Diamonds are assumed to be many billions of years old and should contain no detectable carbon as it would have all decayed to nitrogen long ago.
Lessons Learned: Mount St. Helens to Kilauea
The same is true of coal which was supposedly deposited hundreds of millions of years ago, according to the evolutionary model. The presence of carbon in these materials clearly supports the idea of a young earth as described by the Bible. Whenever we're confronted with an amazing claim like this, we should always ask ourselves: Could there be an alternative explanation for these findings?
In the case of carbon in coal and diamonds, the answer is a firm "yes. For example, neutrons from uranium decay can produce C from nitrogen impurities. The authors declare that since they used extraordinary care in handling the samples and are studying diamond, no extraneous source is possible.
However, it is virtually impossible to eliminate such sources and chronologists discount the reliability of C dating if the concentration is below approximately 0. The RATE group also points to helium in zircon crystals as proof of accelerated rates of decay.
And yes, believe it or not, "zircon crystals" are a real thing. They sound like the fuel for a spaceship in a science-fiction novel or something! Answers In Genesis writes the following :. Zircon crystals in granite contain radioactive uranium, which decays into lead over time. As the uranium decays, helium is produced in the crystals. Helium escapes from the crystals at a known, measurable rate. If those rocks were over a billion years old, as evolutionists claim, the helium should have leaked out of the rock.
The presence of lots of helium in the crystals is evidence in support of a young earth. The diffusion chemistry expert Gary Loechelt has outlined a number of problems with their research methodology in an article on Reasons. Once this error was corrected, the fraction of helium remaining in the zircon samples dropped considerably. In contrast, I used a geologically reconstructed thermal history that was highly non-uniform over time.
This type of model ignores the possibility that helium atoms behave differently depending upon their location in the crystal, with atoms in the vicinity of defects moving more readily than those that are in the bulk crystal.
Instead, I incorporated a multi-domain diffusion model which takes this effect into account. What is the consequence of all these corrections?
Even if the creationists were correct about the levels of helium, however, this wouldn't prove accelerated decay rates, because as Randy Isaac points outuranium-helium dating is no longer used or recommended by experts in the field:. Not only do the scientific findings of the RATE group fall flat, but their general approach to science is also an embarrassment-which is not a surprise when you consider that they're young-earth creationists. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't trust a young-earth creationist to make me a ham sandwich -let alone perform scientific research on as complex a subject as radiometric dating.
As we read on Wikipedia.
One thing we can say in praise of the RATE group is that they actually do take peer review very seriously. As Randy Isaac writes. An appendix to this chapter, written by Henry Morris Jr.
Radiometric dating of mount saint helens
Criteria for selecting reviewers include, whenever possible, those who are in agreement with the biblical viewpoint of the researcher. So basically, these creationists' idea of peer review is intentionally selecting reviewers who already agree with the conclusion that they're setting out to demonstrate in their research.
This is the exact opposite of how science-and rational inquiry, generally-should be done: You should be seeking out the strongest challengers to test your ideas-not the most deferential supporters. A user on who has since deleted his account made a great point about the general approach taken by creationists towards radiometric dating.
As this mystery user put it. They don't have one. The creationist technique is to simply discredit any finding or result that threatens their beliefs, all while refusing to provide any convincing or scientifically valid evidence for their own theories. It's also worth pointing out that even if creationists were correct when they argue that radiometric and other datings methods are unreliable, all this would demonstrate is that we simply don't know what the age of the Earth is-not that it's 6, years old.
What if the dating methods are inaccurate, but it turns out that the Earth is actually 50 billion years old, and the creationists are thus even further away from the correct date than we previously thought? Contrary to what creationists argue, radiometric dating methods are very reliable.
This becomes crystal clear when multiple different dating techniques provide the exact same answer. Yes, there are specific circumstances where the tools give us the wrong answer-but the experts in the field are well aware of these limitations.
And finally, none of the evidence pointed to by creationists actually proves their case; instead, their evidence is usually the product of either scientific incompetency or just a general ignorance of how to properly use these techniques.
Feb 11, try the at mount st. In footing services and hunt for you. Young earth creationists. Looking for life? When used radiometric-dating techniques relies upon assumptions.
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